A Chance to Dialogue
Posted by Major George Hood on Thursday, June 28, 2012 · 31 Comments
Last week, The Salvation Army came under fire when one of its media directors in Australia, speaking on a radio show, seemingly agreed with a literal interpretation of a specific Bible passage which lists homosexual acts as one of many illustrations of sin and then relates sin to death. Most Christians understand death in that passage to be a spiritual death, meaning a separation from God, their creator, but in this instance the scripture was, unfortunately, misinterpreted.
I would like to take a minute and set the record straight.
It is, of course, ludicrous to think that The Salvation Army believes or teaches that homosexuals deserve to be put to death. The Army’s leadership worldwide issued public statements to that effect immediately after the news broke. But, the damage was already done.
I don’t know why the officer said what he said nor how the The Salvation Army in Australia will choose to move positively forward. I’ve heard the interview, but I wasn’t there and I have had no conversation with those involved. This is now a local issue for them to handle.
What I do know from experience is how hard it can be in a media interview to explain what we believe about the Bible, as well as a theological system of beliefs.
It has taken me a lifetime of listening, learning, reflection and introspection to understand our earthly relationship to God. And, I don’t know that I will ever have a final word on the matter as I continue to have periodical spiritual failures in my life as I strive to live it in my own faith in Christ.
Unfortunately, words don’t seem to fully capture what The Salvation Army is all about. And, over the last several years I’ve seen that often, words can actually be hurtful and used as weapons, particularly on topics over which people deeply disagree. This certainly is not new. In the early days of The Salvation Army in the United States, our spiritual pioneers took to the streets to preach the plan of salvation and were greeted by heckling audiences who also threw bricks at them.
Regardless of how I or anyone else interprets the Bible, nothing has changed about what The Salvation Army stands for. It is the same thing that committed Salvation Army officers have been preaching and living for almost 150 years – proclaiming the Gospel of Jesus Christ and addressing the physical, emotional, and spiritual needs of the most marginalized, unloved and forgotten members of our society.
So, I apologize sincerely, on behalf of The Salvation Army in the United States, to those people who are hurt and offended by what they’ve seen or heard.
I also encourage and invite anyone who wishes to have a deeper understanding of The Salvation Army and our position on LGBT issues to visit one of our programs or meet with a local Salvation Army officer.
We are available in every community in the United States and in 125 countries around the globe.
You can find us working to serve people in need every day, regardless of their race, religion, creed or sexual orientation. Nothing will deter us from our long standing mission to “preach the gospel of Jesus Christ and meet human needs in His name without discrimination.”
Major George Hood
National Community Relations Secretary
The Salvation Army National Headquarters
June 28, 2012
Well said. Thank you for responding with grace and authenticity. I knew very little about The Salvation Army until about five years ago when I met some wonderful officers involved in womens ministries, and I’ve since been blessed and honored to be a guest at many camps and events. I love ministering alongside officers as we pour into, love on, and minister to people in need. May God continue to guide and provide in every aspect of ministries of The Salvation Army!
Now would be an excellent time to reach out and build bridges to the GLBT community.
amen major hood salvation army helped me in 2003 when no other organization would and with 2 little girls i was on the street physically now i work for the sal army in lake charles for major david an karen craddock i am a testimony that when others judge the salvation army does not i have been in so many situations and never been judged by the sal army but yet have by other churches several in tyler texas if it wasnt for you all where would i be thank you so much sincerlycynthia
I read the transcript of the interview with the SA Major in Australia. No misinterpretation of his statements or beliefs.
Soldiers of Christ? I bet the Inquisitors considered themselves Soldiers of Christ too.
Mr. Hood: Thank you for the well reasoned dialogue. I can’t imagine that anyone would disagree. However, this would have been a good time to actually state what the Salvation Army position regarding all those in the socalled gay community. I find it a bit strange that you didn’t make that clear given this opportunity. I’ll reserve judgement until “the Army’s” position is clearly know. Best Regards…
TSA is not out to put to death homosexuals, yes. It is difficult to express TSA’s Biblical/Theological points in a radio interview, yes. And sure, like you, all Christians have periodical “spiritual failures,” but Christian failures are not the same as non-christian failures because of Christ. As one who knows words can be used as weapons to attack you can be in a place of heart and mind to say something sensitively DEFINITE on this subject i.e. “what does the Bible say about Homosexuality.” I assume (safely i believe) that whatever the Bible says is what TSA is about, in other words it’s what TSA believes.
What was the scripture that was brought up, you didn’t post it? and what scripture would you use to add weight on this matter? You say it was misinterpreted without using any other scripture or the scripture that caused some people to get upset. You brush-stroked about taking a lifetime to learn, reflect, introspect, and understand our earthly relationship with God without saying anything insightful about that relationship between God and humans neither about your experience or from scripture.
“Unfortunately, words don’t seem to fully capture what The Salvation Army is all about. And, over the last several years I’ve seen that often, words can actually be hurtful and used as weapons, particularly on topics over which people deeply disagree.” – You. If i where you and i had “experienced” this, it would be all the more reason to TRY and say something sensitively DEFINITE about the matter. Instead of stating, “words don’t seem (vague) to fully (general) capture the TSA, words hurt because people disagree on particular topics” … no kidding. It is because people disagree about particular topics that words hurt them. It doesn’t suit what they believe the other party disagrees on.
TSA is not out to put to death homosexuals, yes. It is difficult to express TSA’s Biblical/Theological points in a radio interview, yes. And sure, like you, all Christians have periodical “spiritual failures,” but Christian failures are not the same as non-christian failures because of Christ. As one who knows words can be used as weapons to attack you can be in a place of heart and mind to say something sensitively DEFINITE on this subject i.e. “what does the Bible say about Homosexuality.” I assume (safely i believe) that whatever the Bible says is what TSA is about, in other words it’s what TSA believes.
What was the scripture that was brought up, you didn’t post it? and what scripture would you use to add weight on this matter? You say it was misinterpreted without using any other scripture or the scripture that caused some people to get upset about. You brush-stroked about taking a lifetime to learn, reflect, introspect, and understand our earthly relationship with God without saying anything insightful about that relationship between God and humans neither about your experience or from scripture.
“Unfortunately, words don’t seem to fully capture what The Salvation Army is all about. And, over the last several years I’ve seen that often, words can actually be hurtful and used as weapons, particularly on topics over which people deeply disagree.” – You. If i where you and i had “experienced” this, it would be all the more reason for me to TRY and say something sensitively DEFINITE about the matter. Instead of stating, “words don’t seem (vague) to fully (general) capture the TSA, words hurt because people disagree on particular topics” … no kidding. It is because people disagree about particular topics that words hurt them. It doesn’t suit what they believe the other party disagrees on.
Major Hood:
I listened to this audio interview with the Australian army representative. I actually listened to it two times. Maybe it’s because I had on my partisan Christian ears that I did not hear the interview the way you did.
I could hear that the salvation army representative in Australia did not articulate your position or the Apostle Pau’s very well. Certainly there were opportunities along the way in this interview for him to insert and clearly state how the Army holds to Paul’s teaching in this matter, and it has eternal consequence which will lead to spiritual death. (separation from God) Your guy failed miserably at that.
But in the army representative’s defense, the female host admitted she had read a book cover to cover called salvation story. This is a salvation army publication? She came prepared to argue the “you want us to die” angle. It seems fair to say the army’s own publication must not make it abundantly and crystal clear that Paul when talking about this list of sins is speaking of spiritual death. If the army’s publication was clear on this matter shame on her! If the army publication was not clear on this matter then shame on you! If the army’s own book that the female host says she read and quotes from during the interview (salvation story) was so disturbing to her because it talks about death but does not clarify the kind of death, it must have been poorly written by the army writer. Yet the army published it? So this army representative in Australia is in trouble because he stood by Paul’s declaration of death and it seems an army publication that does the same? I am confused.
Cleary what we have here is a failure to clearly communicate.
Again, I would agree the army representative was not well prepared or versed and did not seem to articulate Paul or the army’s position well. But, at the end of the interview the female host seemed to slip and betray ever so subtly that she was fully aware the argument made by Paul and I assume the army is and was spiritual death. I believe by the end of the interview the female host knew the army representative was alluding to spiritual death. She either picked it up from the conversation with him or the army publication she had read. I received the impression she knew the truth. This army representative was not calling for a blood bath in the streets against gays. He was speaking the truth, poorly maybe, but the truth nonetheless. According to the Apostle Paul’s writings throughout the NT, Jewish Law when Christ was alive and many other NT and OT accounts speak plainly; living a homosexual lifestyle will lead to death. That is a biblical truth.
I believe what offended the female host was the truth. Not the way the truth was stated.
Major Hood. Your remarks and your apology give me pause and appear to be rather milk toasty. It is my prayer that the army is not becoming like the Pharisees who could not get their theological imagination around the notion that God’s people must both proclaim God’s rigorous ethical demand and at the same time reach out in love to the violators of that demand. I thought this concept of Christ was also a foundation principle of William Booth. The Pharisees thought loving outreach to the violator would necessarily mean a reduction in the ethical demand. So they concluded that if Jesus was having success among sinners and tax collectors he must be compromising God’s rigorous demand. Of course the Pharisees were wrong. I contend today there are churches and Christian organizations that have left Jesus’ biblical model and are falsely proclaiming that one cannot both proclaim that homosexual practice is wrong and at the same time reach out in love to those engaging in homosexual practice. The question for me is this; which of the two supposed alternatives the church should pick? Seems to me the Pharisees gave up the loving outreach and kept the demand, some people calling themselves spirit-filled believers propose that the church give up the proclamation of the ethical demand and keep the outreach. Jesus called his followers to wed the two: love and demand, demand and love; echoes of William Booth.
This is precisely why Jesus could define discipleship as taking up one’s cross, denying oneself, and losing one’s life for his sake and for the sake of the kingdom of God that he proclaimed and enacted.
I fear your army like others is beginning to operate with a worldly definition of love that differs little from the notion of tolerance—which, when practiced toward immoral conduct, the authors of Scripture regard as a vice rather than a virtue (Rev 2:2, 20; cf. Ps 101:5; Mic 6:11). The Judeo-Christian understanding of love is much more robust in terms of correcting wrong. For this reason it would appear many find Christ and His message too offensive on this issue of active homosexual persons.
Believers in Christ must not fail to get the truth of Scripture’s view of homosexual practice correct. If we fail, we may become complicit in attempts to hide the truth from those most in need of hearing it. And in doing so it puts many at risk for the judgment of God that is still to come.
Thank you for reading my response.
As an openly gay ex-Salvationist, I really wanted to like this–I was hoping to hear the start of a real dialogue. I have defended the SA to my friends time and time again, explaining that the SA’s position on sexuality is no different from that of other evangelical churches. But when a leader starts out by stating that I am “dead to God” (though not physically dead, phew!) because of my marriage of 9 years, that doesn’t sound like a dialogue. When the SA tells us that we must be either “cured” or celibate, it is not addressing our physical, spiritual, or emotional needs; in fact, it is ignoring them. I hope there are soldiers and officers out there that realize the irreparable harm the SA has done (along with other evangelical churches) not by this one interview, but by its continual treatment of sexual orientation. I also hope they will start thinking about ways to start a real dialogue with the LGBT community–not by issuing carefully-worded PR statements but by building individual relationships with us.
May the Grace of our Lord Jesus continue to reign in the Salvation Army. The work salvationist do is great and we thank God for his mercies, God bless Salvation Army.
We all need to have sorrow where we have treated ANYONE in a mean manner including Hispanics and American Natives or anyone for that matter. In the salvation Army we serve people from all cultures , religions, and creeds. We do not discriminate in our services. We do not ask people if they are heterosexual or gay or lesbian. We serve. We reach out and love all people. I had a man come to me and seek assistance with food and other social services. He was homeless. He was beat down from a prison sentence. He was a child molester. I helped him. I showed him that I cared. I despised the sin and he has paid some for that sin and he stands before God like us all. We are all sinners. But, we can be sinners saved by grace and faith in Christ. Homosexual practices in the Bible were condemned just as many other practices are. I take notice in particular to the the Apostle Paul in the New Testament in Romans. The word in Greek for homosexual was not stated.
Romans 1:26-28
For this reason God gave them up to dishonorable passions. For their women exchanged natural relations for those that are contrary to nature; and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in themselves the due penalty for their error. And since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God gave them up to a debased mind to do what ought not to be done. (end of Scripture)
We are all deserving of death for our sin. Adam and Eve died physically and were in the process of dying spiritually and men and women have been dying physically and spiritually ever since. But we can have new life in Christ. Our lives can be changed by Him and we do not have to continue in sin.
Sexual sin is often called an abomination because it is against a Holy God , other people and our own bodies! We destroy the temple that He has made. God is the judge of all but the church does judge within. The church is not to judge the world(those without Christ). God does that. As Christians we need to reach the lost and bring them into the saving knowledge of Jesus Christ. We hope to persuade people to serve the Lord and for their actions and attitudes to be like that of Christ Jesus. We have free will and when people make bad choices often bad things happen. We as Christians should never treat people with a mean spirit. Some people are already going through a living hell on earth.
Sometimes we have to agree to disagree.
You can make a big list of sins from the Bible. Sin is sin. A little white lie to murder is all sin. However there are different levels of punishment for what is done in the flesh. The Bible speaks of some abominable sin. Sexual sin and idolatry fall into this category. Adultery,fornication,homosexuality and idolatry are (according to Scripture worthy of more severe punishment or rebuke). That is from God, not from man. We can accept that teaching or refuse it or water it down. “Oh, that was for then and this is a new culture.” God never changes. The Bible is actually very simple and plain in its teaching and doctrine. People twist the meaning to their own liking. I hear people say that some are born as a homosexual. That is a huge discussion right now on the internet and elsewhere. I do not personally believe that people are created as gays or lesbians. I know that some people have certain tendencies. I am not sure why in all cases but some of it deals with choices (there is much controversy on that subject). If God purposely creates and makes someone gay or lesbian then the whole Bible is wrong and we cannot trust it and we are all doomed. These practices were condemned by God, as well as any sin. But, I believe the Word. I believe the Scripture and I am to SHOW love to everyone sinner and saint !
I have served many gays and lesbians over the years with social services and not once was I mean spirited. I have had gay friends. One from a few years ago is dead. He died of aids. It was sad to hear of his death.
The Salvation Army is NOT a group of Fundamentalists that shout death to gays or anyone for that matter. We desire to see life and eternal life in Christ ! We do believe in the fundamental teaching of the Bible to love people. So, whether we may disagree on some issues we still will love and serve until Jesus comes!
The Scripture referred to is a basic Christian stance, that certain behavior is unacceptable to God – idolatry, (Romans 1: 23), homosexuality (v. 26,27), covetousness, murder, envy, strife (v.29), slander, gossip, insolence, haughtiness, disobedience (30), and other sins. I am guilty of many of these offenses. In other Scriptures, there are other lists which include adultery, fornication, greed, etc.. Do I like it that I am guilty and deserving of spiritual death? No. I heard the interview in question and noticed the misinterpretation offered to the officer, who apparently did not have this scripture memorized or was not very familiar with it. It seems to me, that he agreed wih the misinterpretation because he did not know the context and did not want to disagree with a stance he assumed Scriptue was taking although he should have known differently. I, for one, would have asked to have it read in context or would have found a Bible to open and examine. The very next verse (2:1) talks about the danger of judgement of another person. It is soon made clear that this is a spiritul death which includes every unregenerate person, as we all are at one time or another, (Romans 3:23). Then, it is made clear that God offers eternal life as a gift of grace (Romans 3:24). I need it. But, I cannot change the Word to suit me just because I embrace greed, adultery, or homosexuality. We can discuss the fact of homosexuality as a sin or not, as natue or nurture, and other aspects of it, but we shouldn’t divert the argument purposely to whether or not homosexuals or gossips should be killed. Obviously, that is not the argument. I, for one am glad to have a civil conversation, but I won’t argue a position, or spend much time on the discussion of a position which I don’t know anyone who holds. To me, it was an unfair ambush, in that I doubt the interviewer’s sincerity, on an unsuspecting and unwarned person. I have known gays/lesbians in Salvation Army and other congregations, along with adulterers, fornicators, gossips, haters, slanderers, the disobedient, etc.. and I hope they keep coming to hear about the love of God for a fallen race. However, I, along with many have exerienced God’s forgiveness and salvation for a fallen race.
As a Salvationist, there are two immutable laws I adhere to in my commitment to follow God through Christ.
The first is love. It is this love that compels me to social benefit to all in need, regardless of creed, religion, race, sexual orientation, etc. I consider it a divine calling to offer a tangible example of God’s love. In the years that I’ve served at disasters, ministered in prisons, helped people with rent and utilities and fed the hungry, I’ve never asked a single person their sexual orientation nor made requirements. The love of God compels me to “meet human needs in Jesus’ Name without discrimination.” To receive Salvation Army services, you must simply be in need.
The second is holiness. Holiness means that there are immutable and immovable standards set by God. Stealing, murder, prejudice, abuse, and yes, even living a homosexual lifestyle, are just a few examples of what transgressing this standard looks like. I don’t place gluttony or gossip or grand theft above or below someone living in either a heterosexual or homosexual lifestyle God does not approve of. The problem I have is that there are areas of my life that do not reach the expectation of holiness God has placed on me. I have a choice to make. Do I accept what God’s Word says and change my life to bring it in line with His Holy expectation or not?
As Major Hood stated, feel free to engage your local Salvation Army. We would love to dialogue with any person. I can dialogue. What I can not do is add to or take away from God’s expectation for holiness. It’s above my “paygrade”, you might say.
Unfortunately, what some people want is an affirmation that their lifestyle is ok and that becomes the definition of “dialogue”. I cannot say that viewing pornography is ok. I cannot say that sex outside of heterosexual marriage is ok. I can not say that this type of a relationship between two persons of the same sex is okay. These are standards set by God.
His love fills me with a love for others, regardless of who they are. His holiness compels me to let everyone know that the creator of the universe, who has set laws and rules in place, invites them to turn from a way that may seem right to them and follow Him.
It was indeed a poorly thought out answer .
Only God is our JUDGE We must love one another and love our neighbour as ourselves !!! Val Soldier Waverley Temple Corps AUSTRALIA SOUTHERN
I’m deeply saddened by the current controversy that’s blown up in Australia over The Salvation Army & their perceived relationship with the gay community.
As happens once in a while, once again we’ve become Public Enemy Number 1 for many of our LGBT brothers & sisters.
I’m starting to wonder if the Salvos have a special work of reconciliation to do in this area. After all, we were born out a heart for the marginalized, and although there are many gay people who would reject that label, there are others that feel extremely marginalized – both within their worshipping communities & in broader society.
Perhaps it’s time to be brave once again?!
Two generations ago my family first came to the Army in England because the wooden clogs they wore were a sure sign of their poverty. My Grandmother had nine kids and real shoes were beyond the family budget, the larger part went on drink for my coal mining Grandfather. The story goes that in the Church they were looked down on, made to feel uncomfortable and unwanted – so a suggestion was made that they might do better at the Salvation Army.
The point of this little story is that we as The Salvation Army should always be willing to accept those who others will sometimes shun.
• I am a Jesus following who rejects homophobia
• I am a Jesus following married Salvationist who feels no threat to my marriage or family life from same sex marriage
Now’s the perfect time to build bridges. The Marin Foundation does just that between the LGBT and the Evangelical communities. BTW they will be in Australia in Sept. The Salvation Army is one of the real deals. Do not write them off. The Marin Foundation also has many Salvation Army contacts in the USA. Please check them out for any questions.
The penultimate line should read “• I am a Jesus following Salvationist who rejects homophobia”
The Salvation Army believes that there is no difference between sins. Lying is the same as murder. Stealing is the same as adultery. The world put degrees on sin, but with God there are no gray areas or degrees. Sin is sin. It would not be honest to say that homosexuality is not a sin according to the Bible. The Salvation Army clearly states that its message is based on the Bible. However, there are things that are contextual to the times the Bible was written. For instance, when it talks directly to “brothers”, everyone understands that this is applicable to women today, as well. When it says that women should be quiet in church, those who have studied the Word understand that women were not taught the Scriptures and therefore, would not be able to teach the Scriptures effectively until they learned more about them. During those times, and times afterward into the 19th century, people were stoned, burned and hanged for commiting sins. This is something that happened during that time and in that part of the world. Even today, people are still stoned and beheaded, among other things, in that part of the world. The Salvation Army staunchly condemns violence against others for similar reasons.
As to any sexual relationship, the Army would tell anyone out of marriage to be celibate, not just the LGBT community. Just because The Salvation Army believes that homosexuality is a sin does not mean we don’t serve homosexuals in the same way we would serve anyone. When someone asks for assistance for rent or a food box, no one asks such a question. Our services are given to everyone. We help as resources are available. If someone applies for a job, there is no box to check for such a thing. When someone moves into a residential drug treatment program, there is no segregation for sexual preferences, drugs of choice or even what crimes have been committed by people. Everyone is the same – someone in need of help because they can’t get clean on their own.
If someone has given himself over to sin and has turned his back on God, he is spiritually dead. It doesn’t matter what types of sin he has indulged in to the point that He doesn’t recognize God in his life. Some things are offensive to others because their truth is built upon their own thinking, which can be flawed. I am glad that Major Hood recognizes that he is a flawed human being. The difference is that he is striving to live a holy life. The definition of a holy life is to be faithful to the commandments of God. God calls for us to be sexually pure. Homosexuality is considered an impure thing to Christian believers the same as lying is impure.
I am sorry that people are hurt or offended. Sometimes, the truth hurts because we don’t want to face it. We just don’t always agree as human beings. The one thing that bothers me is that for some, disagreement is always termed hatred. I don’t hate people because I disagree with their choice of lifestyle. However, I do feel hatred from the other side because they disagree with me.
The key- word in Leviticus is holiness,occurring 87 times!
God’s people must be holy!
The Lord is talking to Moses in this chapter 18.
Leviticus Chapter 18 : 22– Thou shalt not lie with mankind as, with womankind: it is an abomination.
Leviticus Chapter 20:13—- If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their “blood” shall be upon them.
Read the entire book of Leviticus! It will tell you that you will be put to death for many things! You cannot believe only those parts of the Bible that you choose! To tell God that you believe his word and to take only parts as the truth is surely an abomination
To worry or be concerned with offending someone because of God’s word is truly an abomination!
I have seen a few “abandon” the homosexual lifestyle” after being influenced by the following scripture
John 9:2
His disciples asked him, “Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he was born blind?” “Neither this man nor his parents sinned,” said Jesus, “but this happened so that the work of God might be displayed in his life.
Though I can only imagine the “controversy” this would precipitate in various circles I do believe that some like the blind man are “chosen” by God so that His radical transformative power might be revealed
We, the church must be Christ’s agents for this transformative process to be realized. It will never be realized until we learn to speak the truth in love as He did….
Because, we, the Church, have historically failed at this task….homosexuals/pedophiles/addicts? and such stay hopelessly stuck in their Divinely appointed afflicted nature.
Due to the Righteous Justice of God, these folks just may be the “last who become first” while we suffer the judgment of God for not rescuing His children as we have been appointed….
If we do not become a true source of hope…then we only add to the misery AND an abject acceptance of defeat because they were “born this way” (how many “churches” have already aquiesed to un-Biblical stance due to faulty compassion)
So, basically, the title of this article is misleading. The Army has no intention of dialoging with gays and lesbians, except to point fingers at them and condemn them. And, for this reason, the Army will not be able to reach gays and lesbians.
The Army preaches a Christ of love and compassion, but when it comes to gays and lesbians, the Christ you preach is one of judgment and condemnation.
You say that if homosexuality is genetic, then the Bible is wrong. That is not true. If homosexuality is genetic, then maybe your interpretation of scripture is wrong.
The Army has always had a ministry of reaching out to the marginalized. I can agree with this. Gays and lesbians are one of the most marginalized groups of people we have right now, and the main source of that marginalzation is the church itself. You see them, they might be different than you, and hey! there’s a few passages of scripture you can use against them. So, thats what you do. You should be ashamed of yourselves for using scripture to marginalize and demean people who are different than you, in effect, turning them away from the church, and God. Scripture is not to be used in this fashion.
We are a holiness movement. This is true. But holiness isn’t a set of rules and regulations, its a walk with God where you get so close to Him, that every word thought ans deed is a reflection of Him. Judging people guilty, then doing everything you can to marginalize, demean or discriminate against them is not treating people in the way God would treat them. Holiness does not consider someone less then one considers themselves, but puts their spiritual health and well-being above their own.
As far as the interpretation of scripture goes, all the best hermeneutical arguments on the traditional side of this issue mean absolutely nothing if the interpretation fails in application. In application, the traditional understanding of these scriptures has done nothing to bring people to Christ, but has done everything to push them away.
But, none of this matters. You have your belief, you have your interpretation of scripture, and nothing in the universe is going to make you change it because you don’t want to be seen as yielding to pressure from society. You are more concerned with how you look, then you are with actually reaching out to a group of people who want Christ. Then you say, well, there are churches that accept homosexuals, let them go there. This is an unacceptable answer! God sends them to you to help, to take care of , to nurture, and you turn them away. Will God accept you, or turn you away?
Maybe the ‘sin of homosexuality’ isn’t homosexuals or their relationships, but maybe the real ‘sin of homosexuality’ is how the church treats them. If it is, how will you fare?
This article is about ‘dialogue,’ but the Army isnt’ interested in dialogue. Many of the people who have commented aren’t interested in dialogue. So, in essence, this is a lie. The General says she wants the Army to be diverse and reach out to the marginalized, but there again, its just a lie. Something that sounds good, gives gays and lesbians false hope. Well, put your faith into action, and start reaching out in love and compassion to gays and lesbians. If you can’t, then you need to re-evaluate just how unconditional your love is for people. Otherwise, it’s all just a lie.
Dan, do you believe all the book of Leviticus? Or only the bits you choose?
You can’t have it both ways…
I agree with Eric – ‘dialogue’ is just a nice, fuzzy warm way of trying to hide the fact that, based on conversations I’ve had, a lot of Salvationists probably agree with Major Craibe (I’m an adherent incidentally). Not just Salvationists though – evangelical Christians in general.
In some ways, I respect Muslim Fundamentalists more than their Christian counterparts. They at least have the courage of their convictions. They’re willing to die for their faith. Adulterers are stoned, thieves have their hands chopped off. They are trying to follow the Koran to the letter.
Christians on the other hand are willing to let a lot slide. There are plenty of re-married officers, which technically, with some exceptions, means they are living in a state of adultery as far as I know. I’m also fairly sure uniform shirts are a cotton / polyester mix, which is a no no. Do quarters all have a parapet around the roof? Not sure.
Until my fellow Christians take the following verse seriously, I will have to assume that the way they target gays is pure ‘homophobia’ unfortunately:
Deuteronomy 22:28-29
If a man happens to meet a virgin who is not pledged to be married and rapes her and they are discovered, he shall pay her father fifty shekels of silver. He must marry the young woman, for he has violated her. He can never divorce her as long as he lives.
Eric,
I would dialogue with you. You are correct that many treat gays and lesbians in a cruel manner. I agree with the Salvation Army Positional Statement concerning this issue. You can Google it and read it. I have assisted people without asking their sexuality and at times they share that they are gay or lesbian. I still show compassion ans assist how I can. Anyone seeking assistance at the Salvation Army will not be turned away because of being heterosexual or homosexual. We do not ask the question if they are anyway. People from all walks and backgrounds can attend programs and worship. I don’t ask people if they are liars or adulterers. We serve. Now to make (knowingly) someone living with another and involved sexually outside of marriage, I would deny soldiership and deny support and backing of officership . I would do it based upon Scripture. I am aware that the OT can be confusing on this issue so I lean more toward NT doctrine as we live in the New Covenant Era. I am not ignoring the OT but it can be confusing some on this issue.
Eric, do you believe that Christians should ignore sexual sin (and other behavior) . I f we ignored it totally we would be sinning. We help people with addictions. Years ago these folk were looked down upon by Christians and the churches. There is a high success rate of people overcoming addictions. I think that sexual sin can be overcome (including homosexuality) but we must have patience and love for all people. Because we may disagree with others , name calling should be avoided. For me to call people names for disagreeing is sin. Why should I be called a hater or a bigot just because I disagree? That is where friendly dialogue needs to take place. Jesus tells us to show love. If we don’t we fail as disciples. Loving someone does not mean that you have to accept the lifestyle. Wife beaters need to be helped and the wife protected but we can show love to both by helping them work out their problems. Unconditional love ? Yes! Unconditional acceptance of lifestyle ? I say no, but dialogue should remain with civility.
Cameron,
You must have misunderstood. I or anyone else cannot take the verses apart and believe only those that you choose!
I believe the Bible from the first verse in Gen to the last verse in Revelations!
Dan – what are your thoughts on Deuteronomy 22:28-29 that I quote above?
Larry
Moses is speaking to the children of Israel (Gods instructions) in view of their impending entrance into the promised land. Deuteronomy contains a summary of the wilderness wanderings of Israel. Important as to unfolding the moral judgement of God! Israel entered the land under Joshua and the instructions are to a generation of people that had grown up in the wilderness. Instruction as to the conduct of Israel in the new land. The book breathes the sternness of the law!
Sad but true, today people adhere to worldly law rather than Godly law!
As for Muslim Fundamentalist, I respect no part of a so-called religion that will put to death all non-believers! They are commanded to kill all Infidels!
I have to agree with Lujza :
I was raised as a third generation Salvationist and I will love the Army – always. Yet as a Gay man I needed to leave because of what amounts to spiritual violence. While I appreciate Major Wood’s words, there is not (as far as I can discern), a true indication of reconciliation. Fortunately this public relations crisis has prompted a real discussion among Australian Salvations and I hope the same happens in the states.
Praying for God’s best for the Army
http://robdean.blog.com/2012/07/19/salvationscandal-and-sacrament-a-parable-of-missed-opportunity-in-ecumenical/
My parents joined the Army in the 1930′s at the Times Square Corps, affectionately called “the Glory Shop.” I was raised in the Army during the ’50s and ’60′s, preached at Open Air, Holiness, and Salvation meetings, rang bells, drove the canteen to fires and disasters, etc.
Eventually, I left the Army as my own spiritual journey led me elsewhere – much to the disappointment of my parents and many Army friends.
But while I have many fond memories of my Army days, as a straight supporter of LGBTQ rights, I am disheartened that it maintains the attitude of “hate the sin, love the sinner,” the very attitude that Major Hood expresses here though in different words. Oddly, unless I am missing it, the Army’s National website has no position statement on the subject of homosexuality and I wonder if that could be deliberate so as to avoid further backlash by potential donors. The Army’s website for India does contain such a statement and is clear that homosexual “friendships” will be tolerated but not those that are “genitally expressed.”
I do hope that the Army will one day engage in serious Biblical scholarship and move away from the literalist, uncritical interpretation of the Hebrew and Christian scriptures. If not, I suspect it will continue to become simply one more once vibrant social service organization with Christian roots akin to the Volunteers of America.
Is there some way to tell the truth AND build dialogue? Like:
~The Salvation Army has religious convictions that many people would find offensive.
~We serve anyone in need whether s/he agrees with our religious rules or not.
~We admit we may not be right about everything, but we feel compelled to follow the Bible to the best of our understanding. We believe the Bible calls a wide variety of activity “sin” – and therefore our voluntary adherents strive to abstain from those “sins”. We deeply regret that these beliefs offend others. You do not have to agree with us or join our church.
~We also believe the Bible instructs us to serve marginalized, suffering people, so we serve everyone regardless of creed, color or sexual orientation, whether they agree with our religious rules or not.
~We do recognize that LGBT people feel they are “born gay”, that God created them gay, and therefore it is highly offensive to call them sinners. However, we cannot see a way to reconcile that view with what we read in the Bible. Nonetheless, we are required by that same Bible to love everyone and serve everyone, and hope that we genuinely can love everyone. Yet we admit we do so imperfectly at times.
~We would like to work with all people in our community toward the common good of the community in whatever ways it makes sense to partner. In other words, we would like to find a way to set aside religious and political difference and work together with anyone towards helping others — whether they be LGBT, Jewish, Muslim, Mormon, atheist, Republican, Democrats, Socialists, etc.
~~
MY DISCLAIMER: I’m a former Salvationist, now an out lesbian of progressive faith. I’m very interested to hear how both Salvationists and LGBT people feel about the above statements.
Mr. Hood, I heard you on Stephanie Miller this morning, and if what you said is true and the Salvation Army does not discriminate against gays either within its religious organization or in applying its services, I think you need to say so in a series of ongoing articles. Perhaps this should be part of your call to service.
Because until articles like this one — http://www.bilerico.com/2011/11/why_you_shouldnt_donate_to_the_salvation_army_bell.php — are addressed point by point repeatedly, it is hard for those of us who are LGBT supporters to support your bell ringers.
Saying “We don’t discriminate against LGBT people” is easy; harder is to prove it through your actions. Perhaps a series of articles highlighting LGBT people within the organization hierarchy as well as in local community organizations would be appropriate. And if you have no LGBT people in your hierarchy, can you truly say you don’t discriminate?
There’s a difference between providing compassion to “sinners” — which we, as Christians, are required to do — and accepting people, even LGBT people, for who they are. Acceptance of the way God made someone is also a Christian virtue. I believe the Salvation army may do the first, but you have yet to convince me that you do the second.